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| Tommy Dreamer, pictured with Beulah McGillicutty, who at the time was his on-screen girlfriend. Funny thing happened though, they fell in love in real life and are now married with several daughters together. E-C-DUB LOVE! |
Interview: Tommy Dreamer
The Innovator of violence gives IGN Wrestling a lesson in Hardcore!
February 23, 2000
In the sport of pro-wrestling, Tommy Dreamer is nothing short of an enigma. The consummate company man, he has spent the last seven years of his career working with ECW to bring the company to the forefront of the wrestling world with a brutal, "hardcore" style of wrestling. While the WWF and WCW picked up on this and started imitating (both companies have instituted "Hardcore" championships in the last four years), the original still remains the best.
Now, however, 29-year old Tommy Dreamer has other thoughts on his mind. It's been several months since he was diagnosed with two herniated disks in his back. While most people would have a problem working in an office with such an injury, he has insisted that he will keep wrestling. More than that, he has insisted that he will continue wrestling one of the most brutal styles in wrestling, being slammed on chairs and through tables four nights a week. Not only does he live with the pain of an injured back, he also lives with the knowledge that any day now he could take that one fateful fall which will end his dream - his career as a pro-wrestler.
Blake Norton: How are you doing?
Tommy Dreamer: Hanging in there…
Norton: Physically?
Dreamer: I’m feeling a little better right now. I dropped some weight, which (the doctors) said will relieve some pressure. I have a situation which is never going to go away, unless I have surgery. I have my good days and my bad days. I go to therapy to just relieve the pain. Some days I feel like crap, others I almost feel like a normal civilian.
Norton: Have you any plans to curtail… I look at your matches today, and you’re still taking slams on the chairs…
Dreamer: I’m not going to change my style. I’m going to keep going until my back totally breaks.
Norton: Surgery – have you any plans of taking it, and would it end your career?
Dreamer: No. The original surgery I was supposed to have would have put me out ten months guaranteed. They gave me no reassurance that once I got back in the ring that it wouldn’t happen again.
Norton: Oh man.
Dreamer: It’s the same type of thing as Scott Steiner, I’m not sure, but it’s along the lines of that.
Norton: Has your schedule toned down? I don’t see any difference between your matches now and your matches five years ago. For everybody reading the website, let me tell you that a lot of what happens on television is staged, but what ECW has said is true, it’s a shoot situation.
Dreamer: Right. My disks are herniated. They’re rubbing together. It’s not so bad that either a disk can slip back into place or rupture. Then you get a protruding disk. I think that’s what Arn Anderson had, I’m not sure. But I’m not going to doubt my style. I don’t feel there’s a reason to. If I feel like crap I can take some time off and if it gets to the point that I can’t wrestle I’ll take some time off and get the surgery. This is how I want to live my life.
Norton: How do you see your feud with Raven going? Many consider it the headlining feud in ECW, particularly now that Rob Van Dam is out. Do you think it will have more twists or is it winding down?
Dreamer: I think it will have more twists with Francine involved. Raven and I are opposite characters, as we are opposite in real life. Who knows how it’s going to turn out? I expect nothing but great matches with him and I. We have great chemistry together. I don’t know where it’s going to go, I don’t know if Paul knows where it’s going to go, I don’t know if Raven knows where it’s going to go. Raven and I just go out there and do what we have to do.
Norton: The last time we talked, you said that the ECW World Championship isn’t one of your goals.
Dreamer: I legitimately never want to hold a belt in my career. I feel it’s used to elevate a guy to the next level. I don’t think I need a belt… There are other people who don’t need one. I don’t think The Rock needs a belt. I don’t think Goldberg needs a belt. I don’t think The Sandman needs a belt. I put myself in that category. I wish I could have gone down with never holding it (the world tag team championship). You look at Hunter, when he finally won the belt it elevated him and he’s a top performer. I don’t think he needs one but it works great with the storylines.
Norton: There’s a lot of guys through history like Ted DiBiase, Jake Roberts, Roddy Piper who never won the belt when they were in their prime. People asked "Why aren’t they world champ?" "Why didn’t they win it?" But when you look back on it, you wouldn’t think of them any higher for doing so.
Dreamer: I look at history. Tommy Rich was one of the youngest world champs, he held it for no time and look at his career. And look at this business. You have to be physically on top of your game. I’m not. Hunter is, Mike Awesome is, and they use it as a plateau to elevate them. They deserve those belts and they have to get in the ring every night and defend them.
Norton: That’s a very interesting way of looking at it. With everybody writing books these days, ever think of throwing your name into the hat?
Dreamer: I think my book would be the first ever X-rated book (laughs) Would I like to? Yes. Do I have the time? No. I read Mankind’s book, I’m reading The Rock’s book. I read Arn Anderson’s and Dynamite Kid’s. Actually, my first ever printed literature will be in the ECW strategy guide, in the large version. It’s in the first two pages. Right now, I have too many commitments to concentrate on a book. We’re (ECW) trying to hit number two in the business That’s what I’m concentrated on.
Norton: If your career had to end... what would you do?
Dreamer: I was a commentator for ECW’s PPV Barley Legal and I sucked at that. I feel I have a monotone voice, so I don’t think I could be an announcer. I do feel I have a knack to speak to the people, though. I would work behind the scenes. I put ECW and Acclaim (for the video game) together. I’m involved heavily with merchandise. I’ll probably have a job forever in ECW.
Norton: How do you describe your role in the first office in ECW? It’s widely known that you’re very involved. You’re one of the few people in the industry that’s being viewed as having a close association with the company without trying to force a big push out of it…
Dreamer: Right…
Norton: What is it that you do with the company?
Dreamer: Whatever they need me to (chuckles)… everything. I help the younger talent. I book storylines. It’s not just me, we all have that ability to talk about what we want to do in ECW. Legitimately, Raven and I in the first feud was just Raven and I, Paul didn’t get that involved. Paul never goes over my matches with me. I just go out and do it. I do a lot of storylines for the company. It’s not just me, a lot of guys are helping, because more opinions are good. In this company, if you have an opinion which sucks, it will get shot down, if it’s good, we’ll run with it. I’m heavily involved with the merchandise in the company. I put the deal together with Acclaim, I was the liaison between the talent and the game, doing the move lists for the characters. I run all the house shows, I do all the Pay Per Views. I used to do the video packages for them, but I’ve been so swamped I haven’t had the time recently. I book the order of the PPV matches with Paul. You name it, I’ve done it with this company… I’ve set up the ring and carried guys’ clothes back from the ring, though I can’t do that anymore obviously….. you name it, I’ve done it.
Norton: What are your feelings on Tazz going to the WWF?
Dreamer: He had just had a baby…. He felt it was time for him to move on. He was negotiating contracts with Paul, it didn’t pan out the way they wanted it and he went to the WWF. I saw his first match with Kurt Angle. I’m still friends with him and I wish him every success.
Norton: I talked to RVD not too long ago and he said that Tazz was upset that he left ECW. Obviously it was his choice, but do you feel it’s something that in some ways he didn’t want to do?
Dreamer: Man, at the Anarchy Rulz pay per view he was crying…. Tazz has a very "hard" image because of how he was brought up. He’s a tough dude. I’ve seen him with his wife and he’s a loving husband. I was the best man at his wedding. He’s human, and he cries when he’s upset and laughs when he’s happy. He started this company just like I did. To leave it for the unknown, he doesn’t know how it’s going to go. He was established in ECW…
Norton: He’s taking a risk…
Dreamer: Yeah. He was actually offered more money to stay.
Norton: I was wondering about that. The top level of ECW and the mid-card in the WWF I should think aren’t that far apart money-wise any more. ECW started as an indy but built up.
Dreamer: I don’t know his situation... You never want to get in to that with a guy. You look at all the guys, the Radicals who left the WCW to go to the WWF, they were making more money somewhere else. The WWF is hot, it’s on top right now. They give downside contracts which I think is good because it pushes guys. You weigh that option all the time. It’s like free agency. It’s like Ken Griffey, he was in Seattle and he was unhappy. He took less money somewhere else because he wanted to be on a winning team and with his dad…. Those are personal situations.
Norton: I want to ask how what happened with Axl Rotten. (Rotten was fired recently by ECW, reportedly over an argument with Dreamer)
Dreamer: What happened with Axl and ECW is this…. First of all, the part about him and me having to be restrained is an absolute farce. The only thing that started was that at the merchandise table, we were talking and he was complaining. He had a legit gripe about certain things. From my perspective, I think Axl Rotten is a hell of a wrestler, he’s great on the microphone. He has a lot of personal demons he needs to conquer. He was supposed to go to Japan and never got on the plane. Paul told me he didn’t want Axl to wrestle until he spoke to him. I said no problem, I gave that message to Axl and he said he was mad because he talked to the Japanese office and that he was going to catch the next flight the day after. That’s all that happened, (it happened) as calmly as I’m speaking to you. It was at the merchandise table, so I guess that’s how the rest of it got started, but it was just another lovely internet rumor.
I never heard from Paul about not letting Axl work, so I told Axl if he gets in trouble for it I’ll get the heat. Axl worked that night and he was fine, and the rest of the show is between him and Paul. There were problems in the back I believe, Axl was fine in the ring, that was that, and he got on the plane the next day and went to Japan. He does have some personal demons, but the rest of it was between he and Paul.
Norton: How important do you think it is for the company to have a video game?
Dreamer: Well, yesterday RVD and I did a preview for the game in Manhattan, and we had 3,000 fans there camping out from 4am. To have them cut off a street in New York City because of there being so many people is impressive. The game is important to me because everyone knows storylines, and Paul Heyman changed the wrestling industry. WWF took that and ran with it, made millions. WCW is just falling apart. Now with the success of our video game, WCW has unlimited pockets, the WWF is on top so they’re making a lot of money. We’re going to make some money on top of the video game so it is very neat. The turnout was great, and the game is very cool.
Personally, I love being in a video game. It’s one of the final goals I have set for the industry, because I’m a big gamer. I always wanted to be on Pay Per View, I always wanted to be on national TV, I wanted to be a Doll (laughs). It’s exciting, it’s very exciting. I think the financial aspect is the thing that always separated us from the WCW and WWF, and now we have that security.
Norton: Moving on to some fan questions here. What would you tell people who would consider becoming a wrestler?
Dreamer: I get that question a LOT. First, you have to start young. Second, you’re not going to make millions off the bat. It is not fake. It is 100% real. You have to devote your life to it. You cannot go in and do it half-assed. I’ve driven 24 hours to wrestle, to get my name out there, then got screwed over on a pay day then had to drive home again. It’s a hard, hard business, and there aren’t a lot of places to go. You have to get in the gym and train, it’s an entire lifestyle. It puts a strain on your family, but if you want to do it you have to follow your dreams, and eventually it pays off if you want it.
Norton: Certainly from my experience, I thought I knew everything before I wrestled with the Hart Family a few months ago. I was wrong. I’m sure a lot of fans have a lot of misconceptions. They see the glorification of pro-wrestling on TNN, they don’t realize that you’re wrestling and driving the whole rest of the week too.
Dreamer: Right. Three weeks ago we were in Florida, then Atlanta. I had a two-hour layover, went to Tampa, went to the gym, had no sleep the night before, had something to eat, wrestled, drove to Fort Lauderdale. Then I woke up, went to the gym, wrestled in Fort, woke up the next morning and drove to Orlando, no sleep because of an early flight…. The following week we were back in Florida.
Norton: It’s no joke, is it?
Dreamer: No. You’re so tired, so exhausted, you don’t want to go to the gym. It was my birthday and I was with my family, I just sat there being tired. I talked to the Dudleys, they were stuck in an airport with me recently. They went from Denver to San Diego, then RAW, then Smackdown. The guys in the WWF deserve to be on top because they work every single night and bust their asses to get one of the highest rated shows.
Norton: What was your most memorable feud?
Dreamer: Raven, Brian Lee, Jerry Lawler. One person asked me who my greatest match was yesterday. I don’t have a greatest match, a greatest feud. To me, this is my dream, what I want to do. Me just being out there and doing what I want to do is the greatest thing for me. If I’m in the ring wrestling… I just had a great match with Simon Diamond, I feel there’s great potential for him and me to have a feud…. I’m just happy doing what I’m doing. There’s a lot of great feuds. Me and Louie (Spicolli) too. I’ve been involved in some really great stuff.
Norton: What were your feeling when the Sandman came back?
Dreamer: I was happy. He’s a good friend of mine, I’m happy to have him back in the locker room. ECW and him are very special together.
Norton: "Hey Tommy, has ECW rewarded you for being loyal, particularly since many of your fellow ECW stars went and came back from the WWF and WCW" I think it’s the same as the Sandman question. Are you ever frustrated that guys jump away for the lure of money and bright lights, end up coming back, and still get a warm welcome for their return?
Dreamer: Not at all. That’s not what I’m about. I’m not jealous about anything like that. I’m happy to see Sandman back because I know it will help put people in the seats. I think the whole Raven / Sandman / Dreamer thing when it was going on was really interesting. The Sabu situation, I hope, gets rectified. I’d love to see him go to WCW, get some extra money and then come back. I make a lot of money here. I could go somewhere else, but I’m happy where I’m at. If my situation changes, we’d have to see. As far as guys coming back, I’m happy to see most of them return. With some guys it’s more… if Paul doesn’t feel he wants to sign you to a contract he’ll offer them the chance to go to the WWF and WCW. That’s what happened with Miss Congeniality (Lita). Same thing with the Dupps, they’re not major players in ECW. They’re extremely talented, but Paul didn’t see much in them. He went on my recommendation that they are good workers and now they’re signed to developmental deals. This is a hard business. The Dupps weren’t making a lot in ECW, and they had to take this chance. It’s like Rhino, Paul fell in love with him and signed him up. Same with Steve Corino, he saw him and signed him up. It’s everybody’s personal decisions, their own situation. If I had children or a wife, my situation may be different. Right now I’m looking to purchase my first ever home. It depends on how you look at it.
Norton: Does ECW have any plans on coming to Long Island in the near future?
Dreamer: Yes. There’s talk of us doing two shows in the near future.
Norton: Same fan asks "Besides yourself, who is your all time favorite wrestler and why?"
Dreamer: This is a very, very hard question to answer… I look at myself…. The Rock is a third generation wrestler. His whole family was involved. I grew up watching wrestling. Many of my happiest moments as a kid were pro wrestling moments. I liked everybody. My two favorites were Tommy Rich and Dusty Rhodes, but I also remember hating Terry Funk so much for piledriving Flair though a table. From Jake The Snake to Buzz Sawyer to the Road Warriors, hell to Hulk Hogan to Sting, it’s scary. I always say I’m the biggest mark in the business and I’ll try to out-mark any professional wrestler because I know more things than most people would ever dare. Cactus Jack talks about hitch-hiking to Madison Square Garden to see Jimmy Sunka, I was at that match myself. How much of a fan I was is scary. I quit football to become a pro wrestler. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do. I was a sick, sick fan. Pro wrestling has paid me back with a lot of great memories. That list, almost any guy to step into the ring was a favorite of mine.
Norton: Do you think the sales of the ECW video game will increase ratings on TNN, and did Cactus Jack had a strong effect on your career?
Dreamer: I’m not sure. There’s all that talk of the WWF going to TNN and us going to the USA. Who knows? Who cares? (laughs) This will help us get more out there. TNN didn’t put a dime into the Acclaim deal, so I don’t know if it says anywhere on the video game "Watch ECW on TNN." If you’re a fan of just games, it’s a cool game, if you’re a fan of wrestling, and you have to be one already, you’ll like it.
Cactus Jack helped me out a lot in my earlier career. He’s a great guy. I read his book. He made me remember things that I didn’t even remember. I’d do anything for Cactus Jack and I wish I had the time to be with him more. We were friends, but I wish I could be better friends with him because he’s a great guy.
Norton: Since ECW is seen in Canada now, are there any plans to come to Canada?
Dreamer: Nothing’s final… we are hoping to get there this year.
Norton: Ask Tommy Dreamer how he feels about wrestlers condoning / glorifying pot use – Godfather, Road Dogg, have you any feelings about that, do you agree with it?
Dreamer: Not really. I guess for children who are watching, no. For adults who are watching, hell, the President said he tried it. Promoting it is that whole parental guidance thing. I wouldn’t let me three-year-old niece watch Tommy Dreamer wrestle. I let her play with my dolls though. If you’re a consenting adult, you might as well do whatever the hell you want to do. I don't think there’s anyone even between 16 and 18 who’s going to say "wow, he’s condoning pot use, I’m going to go out and try my first joint."
Norton: Any idea where you’ll be in eight years time?
Dreamer: In most of the fans’ minds, (ECW has) always been number one. The WWF resurged using our style because they had the money to do it. WCW can try and take all our talent, but they’re so screwed up…. I’m looking at buildings we ran, and we’re doing better attendance figures and better Pay Per View figures, and our show is better… but they have unlimited funds. I feel we’re almost established as a clear number two. Look through all the expense they go through for Nitro. The ratings system is a whole other thing. We’re clearly the number two company right now. If we had share holders, Time Warner investing in our product... How can ANY company say they’re number two when they lost 15 million dollars last year? We were breaking even, and now we’re getting that comfortablility factor.
I hope to be alive in eight years, that’s my answer (laughs).
Norton: Last question. "I was wondering why you push yourself to the limit every time you step into the ring. Is it to be popular, to give the fans what they want or to make you feel better about yourself?" It’s definitely a markish question, but I have to agree with it… it scares me that you do the things you do today, particularly after what you’ve gone through physically.
Dreamer: There’s a lot of reasons. This is all I’ve wanted to ever do. The entertaining factor is there, yeah. I want to entertain. I don’t do it for the whole fact of "this is what people expect." I just had a match with Mikey Whipwreck, we started off wrestling…
Norton: Yeah, I liked that…
Dreamer: I can wrestle too. I did that with Simon Diamond. I can only compare it to playing football. You go full-speed every down. Even though I’m going at a slower full-speed... and I never was quick, this is how I am. I just want to go out there and do as much as I physically can.
Norton: Is there a lot of pride there at this point because you’re going out there and doing stuff in this condition that most people at 100% just won’t or can’t do?
Dreamer: Yeah. I watched Flair and Hogan this past weekend…. The people were into it. There were some specific things that just showed that they’re not the same guys when they were doing it in the 80’s. But they still have the people with them and they have to be respected for it. People wouldn’t s*%$ on them because of what they’ve done for the business. That’s cool. That’s what it’s all about, putting butts in seats.
You can catch Tommy Dreamer and the rest of the ECW crew every Friday night at 8pm on "ECW on TNN."
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